AMA and or ANA PBCer Questions to our Doctors Panel

AMA and or ANA

PBCer Questions to our Doctors Panel

 

Marshall Kaplan, M.D.

Chief, Division of Gastroenterology

New England Medical Center

Boston, MA

September 9, 1999

Question

Does it happen often that those with PBC will have positive AMA, and later negative AMA? Many in the digest have had this happen and I thought once positive it wouldn't change.

Answer

AMA TITERS tend not to change very much with time. Changes are more often due to problems with the assay. At least, this has been my experience in every such instance. Some of the commercial labs have had problems with quality control.

Howard Worman, M.D.

Division of Digestive and Liver Diseases
Departments of Medicine and of Anatomy and
Cell Biology
College
of Physicians & Surgeons
Columbia University
New York, NY 10032

September l999

Question

Those with PBC have positive or elevated AMA indicating the presence of antimitochondrial antibodies. Are these antibodies what causes the damage to our bile ducts and resulting cirrhosis. If not, do doctors know what actually causes the damage to the bile ducts.

Answer

Nobody knows what causes the bile duct damage in PBC. Some studies have suggested that a protein similar or identical to the one recognized by the antimitochondrial antibodies is present on the bile ducts of individuals with PBC. However, it is still not clear if this is the target responsible for bile duct damage. Furthermore, some individuals with PBC do not have detectable antimitochondrial antibodies. In summary, much more research is needed to determine what actually causes the damage to the bile ducts in PBC.

 

Andrew Mason, M.D.

Medical Director of Liver Transplantation Ochsner Clinic

Assistant Professor of Medicine, Tulane University Medical Center

Assistant Professor of Microbiology, Immunology, and Parasitology, Louisiana State University Medical Center

New Orleans, La

August 2000

Question

Is it "normal" for Actigall/URSO to reduce the anti-mitochondrial antibodies?

Answer

We still do not know the precise role of anti-mitochondrial antibodies in PBC. At this time, they are considered a specific marker for PBC but there is no evidence to suggest that the titers vary with disease stage. In fact, AMA positive and negative patients with PBC have a similar disease process. Also, AMA are found in the serum of 70% of patients with PBC following liver transplantation, but only a proportion of these patients develop recurrent PBC in the new liver.

With regard to treatment, AMA levels may fall with global improvement in the disease process but it is not known why. So, patients taking Actigall/URSO can have decreased AMA but this is not necessarily a universal finding.

Andrew Mason, M.D.

Medical Director of Liver Transplantation Ochsner Clinic

Assistant Professor of Medicine, Tulane University Medical Center

Assistant Professor of Microbiology, Immunology, and Parasitology, Louisiana State University Medical Center

New Orleans, La

August 2000

Question

a. Some hepatologists do not do or order biopsies now and say that the biopsy is no longer the "gold standard" for PBC since blood tests, especially showing elevated AMA's and certain relationships of LFT's, are an equally good indication for diagnosis. What are your opinions?

Answer

a. Biopsies can be done for 2 reasons. They help to make the diagnosis and also help to stage the disease. As nearly all our PBC patients are in clinical trials, we usually perform biopsies to help assess response to treatment


Young-Mee Lee, M.D. & Daniel Pratt, M.D.

New England Medical Center

Boston, Ma 02111

Show 2001

Question

I needed to find out the correct names of the ANA, AMA, & AMST and their purpose in diagnosis. Are there any other tests that may be beneficial to indicate or rule out PBC or any other liver disease?

Answer

AMA is antimitochondrial antibody, positive in about 95% of PBC patients but found in 2% of patients who do not have PBC. ANA is antinuclear antibody, a less specific test. It is positive in patients with all sorts of different diseases and also found in people with no obvious medical problem. I am not sure what AMST is. ASMA is antismooth muscle antibody, present in some patients with chronic hepatitis.

Nathan Bass, M.D., PhD

Professor of Medicine, Medical Director, Liver

Transplantation Program,

University of California

San Francisco

Show 2000-2001

Question

What causes the AMA to increase in a PBC patient? Does it increase as the PBC progresses? Is it possible for AMA to almost double over a period of a couple of years?

Answer

The AMA will often increase, but I have known it to decrease as well (even to undetectable), and to fluctuate. The condition known as "autoimmune cholangitis is considered by some experts to be PBC without any appearance of the AMA. Yes, it may certainly double or increase ten-fold over a period of a few years. However, since we have no confident idea as to the meaning of the AMA or its role in the disease process in PBC, why any of these things happen is essentially unknown.

 

Nathan M. Bass, MD, PhD
Professor of Medicine
Medical Director, Liver Transplantation Program
University of California, San Francisco
11/4/2002

Question
a.
What is the difference in a PBCER with a negative AMA versus a positive AMA?
b. Does this change the symptoms or how the disease progresses?

Answer
Some experts believe that even AMA negative PBC is often positive if a sufficiently sensitive and specific test is used, but at least 5% of patients who appear to clinically have true PBC are AMA negative. In general opinion is divided whether this represents true PBC or another autoimmune hepatitis with some features closely similar to PBC. The disease in these patients usually behaves like AMA positive PBC, and responds similarly to ursodiol. This has raised some questions about the actual role of the AMA in causing PBC.

Howard J. Worman, M. D.
Associate Professor of Medicine and Anatomy and
Cell Biology
College
of Physicians and Surgeons Columbia University

July 2003


Question
What causes the change to have a positive AMA at one point and then a negative AMA at another?  Would this happen more in PBC or Autoimmune Cholengitis?

Answer
Recent studies using the most sensitive tests have shown that essentially all patients with PBC (~99%) have a "positive AMA."  The problem in the clinical laboratory is that these very sensitive tests are not used.  The clinical laboratories use indirect immunofluorescence that is open to subjective interpretation.  For this reason, some individuals with low titer AMA (a low concentration or weakly reactive antibodies) may have a "positive" test at one time and a "negative" test at another time.  There may also be changes in the AMA titer over time in an individual patient for reasons that are not clear.  "Autoimmune cholangitis" is not a well-defined disease entity and I cannot comment on it

Henry C. Bodenheimer, Jr., MD
Chief, Division of Digestive Diseases
Beth Israel Medical Center
First Ave at 16th Street
New York, NY 10003
8/2/2003

Question
Why is it that some patients are negative to Antinuclear Antibodies (ANA), Antismooth Muscle AB, and Antimitochondrial Ab (AMA) but have PBC as diagnosed through liver biopsy?

Answer
Some patient have negative auto antibodies but have a clinical syndrome identical seropositive PBC. This may be a recognition that there are multiple insults being directed at the biliary tree and mitochondrial antibody is only one marker of the immune response to this attack on the biliary system. It is possible that patients may have biliary injury that looks identical to PBC but not have the same immune process mediating this injury an example may be a drug reaction or toxic injury to the bile ducts which on biopsy may look similar to PBC. This apparent "immune mediated cholangitis" is a term used for sero-negative PBC without mitochondrial antibody. We have an imperfect understanding of the events initiating PBC and have even less information regarding the progression and initiation of auto-immune cholangitis. I think of these diseases similarly, and treat both the same as long as the disease is focused on the bile ducts. At times some patient will develop an immune mediated process against the liver cells (hepatocytes) and act more like auto-immune hepatitis, such patients may be treated with immune suppression such as prednisone and Imuran.

Howard J. Worman, M. D.

Associate Professor of Medicine and Anatomy and Cell Biology

College of Physicians and Surgeons

Columbia University

New York, NY

9-29-03

Question

Why is it that some patients are negative to Antinuclear Antibodies(ANA),  Antismooth Muscle Ab, and Antimitochondrial Aba (AMA) but have PBC as diagnosed through Liver Biopsy?

Answer

The diagnosis of PBC is based on clinical (e.g. patients i a woman), laboratory (e.g. elevated serum alkaline phosphatase), immunological (e.g. positive AMA) and histological (consistent biopsy) criteria.  All of these must be considered in diagnosis.

About 90% of subjects with PBC are women.  Most are middle aged when first diagnosed.  Therefore, being a woman is more consistent with PBC than being a

man.

Blood testing for alkaline phosphatase activity is of critical importance for the diagnosis of PBC.  It is elevated in virtually every patient with the disease (assuming they are not yet taking ursodiol).  If the blood alkaline phosphatase activity if not elevated, the diagnosis of PBC must be suspect.

If tests for AMA are done using the most sensitive methods available in research laboratories, virtually all patients with PBC have positive tests.  However, since the assays used in routine clinical laboratories are less sensitive and less specific, only about 90% to 95% of subjects with PBC will have

positive AMA. 

About 50% of subjects with PBC will have ANA, which are found in many different conditions and are not specific for the diagnosis of PBC.  Tests available only in research laboratories can sometimes determine if the ANA is a type specific for PBC.  Antismooth muscle antibodies are a very non-specific test of

limited utility in the diagnosis of PBC.  About 90% to 95% of subjects with PBC will have an elevated blood immunoglobulin M (IgM) concentration.

In PBC, the biopsy findings are usually "consistent with PBC" but not "diagnostic."  The diagnosis usually can only be made when consistent biopsy results are obtained in the presence of other compatible diagnostic criteria (AMA, elevated serum IgM, disease in a middle aged woman, etc).  In rare instances, the liver biopsy may be diagnostic (stage I "florid bile duct lesion").

So an experienced doctor make the diagnosis of PBC based on several criteria.  In the 5% to 10% of cases in which the AMA is negative in the routine clinical laboratory, many of the other criteria must be met and a biopsy must certainly at least be consistent. 

 

 

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